Conseils pour les guitaristes

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M'Bo
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Re: Conseils pour les guitaristes

Message par M'Bo » dim. 08 septembre 2019, 23:45

Très intéressant !!

Merci de ce partage :okok:

Dmitry Nilov
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Re: Conseils pour les guitaristes

Message par Dmitry Nilov » lun. 09 septembre 2019, 10:18

Merci pour votre intérêt. :merci: Pour mieux comprendre ce qui a été dit, je mets le texte anglais. J'espère que cela vous aidera. Si vous souhaitez, je vous continuer et je presenterai les textes des autres 3 parties.
A bientôt. :bye:

Comment distinguer une bonne guitare d'une mauvaise? Critères de sélection de l'instrument. "l'Attaque".[Part1]
Part 1
Attack

-We've got a new instrument today, we played it for a while. The strings were put on just yesterday. You put the strings on yesterday evening, right?
-Right.
- And we have some questions from people who are interested. In fact, there are quite a lot of them here. We will announce some of these questions and some will wait until our next record. Here we go: "How to distinguish a good guitar from a bad one? What should be our guide when choosing an instrument?” What could we recommend, just the simplest things?
- The difficulty of this question is that, first of all, we have to define the ['kætəg(ə)rɪ] category of the instrument. Because...
- Of which class, right?
- Yeah, of which class the instrument is. I.e. a learner’s instrument, a professional instrument - not a student instrument - intended for a serious musician, for concert work. It is clear that the range of requirements for an instrument designed for highly professional concert work is very wide, but there are some general rules common for all instruments, i.e. the instrument can be simple, of a low price category, but at the same time it can be, as we say, the right one. Right in what sense: first of all, it should have the right sound generation. The sound generation is a...

- Yeah, many people don't understand what “the sound generation” means. I also often say to people "attack", "sound generation", and they ask: "What is it?”.

- The sound generation is all about how the sound occurs, how long it lasts, and how it fades out. And how these very sounds interact with each other. The notion of "sound generation" does not include the notion of "timbre". And this is a [ˌfʌndə'ment(ə)l fundamental thing, because many people, including professional musicians, do not understand it. Often the musician plays an instrument, for some reason he likes the instrument, and he says about this instrument: "it has a very good timbre," although the timbre there may be pretty mediócre. So, the sound generation consists of two main indicators: this is the attack you mentioned... Well, about the attack it’s very simple, because the guitar – as well as any musical instrument in general - is a kind of mechanical device, then from the moment you touch the string, that is, the moment of plucking, before the instrument’s body fully engages, i.e., our string plays a role of a generator, it vibrates and, because it is even and has an equal thickness and elastîcity, it generates the entire spectrum of harmonics. The harmonics are frequencies multiple to the main tone frequency of the note that you are extracting. And then the body amplifies it all, working both as an amplifier and as an equalizer, because depending on the instrument design, the guitar body is like, let’s say, the equalizer on your sound system... where you have 100 Hz, 200 Hz, 500, 1000, and you can make something lower, something higher, and you will in one way or other change the color of the sound. So the body performs this function as well as the function of an amplifier. And the problem is - since the pieces we play include switching fast enough from note to note - that the body works at maximum speed, i.e. this time interval, measured in milliseconds, which passes from plucking to fully engagement of the body, should be minimal. This time interval is called the attack speed.
- The speed of the sound arising.
- No, not the speed of the sound arising. The string engages earlier than the body does. The string is primary, it generates some sound there.
- It gives away its energy, doesn't it?
- Yes, it does. And the speed at what the body will engage after the string - this is the attack of the instrument. And the attack referred to the string depends on your plucking, on the technique of plucking. You can make quick movements or you can make smooth movements, depending on what you want to achieve as a timbre result, in particular, to soften the sound, to sharpen it - etc. But the attack of an instrument is how much time will pass from the time you pulled the string before the whole body is fully operational. And, all other things being equal, the less time it is, the faster is the body’s engagement, the more comfortable and convenient it is to play.
- I just wanted to make it clear: the attack can be not bad on quite cheap instruments as well?
- It doesn’t depend on the class of the instrument. The class of the instrument can affect the beauty of the sound, timbre flexibility, variability, the power, for example, can also depend on it. And the attack speed doesn’t depend on how high-end the instrument is. I.e., you can easily find an instrument that is just a factory-made one, for some three hundred dollars, which could have a fine attack. Just luckily made the right elasticity.
- Does the dynamics depend on the attack?
- I would say, not necessarily, there is no direct connection. That is, there can be an instrument with a relatively slow attack, relatively slow means up to certain limits. Why - I'll make a reservation: if the instrument has a very slow attack, it will lead to the fact that when playing music it won’t have time to switch from note to note, and all this music will turn into such a mess, i.e., the following notes and the previous ones will overlap ...
- It must be especially noticeable when playing some lively music, isn't it?
- Yes. And even if not very lively, it is also appreciable, when we deal with open strings there.
- For example, it's hard to play passages on the guitar, and many people don't manage it. I guess it depends a lot on how it reacts, how fast it reacts?
- Not only passages. But the guitar passages are basically pretty hard to play. It is just connected with the complexity of the guitar playing technique. It's especially difficult to play – now I’m certainly leaving my home turf, but nevertheless...
- That's okay.
- It is particularly difficult to play upward passages when the effort goes towards oneself and the hand moves from the string in the opposite direction. When you play a downward passage, you can quasi drag your hand from string to string, but when you play an upward passage, you can't drag anything. You have to move your hand exactly by these 11 mm, which are the distance between the strings. But there is, for example, a technique where the speed of the attack has a fundamental impact, it is legato.
- Or some embellishments when we play melismata in baroque music.
- Sure. Now I'm playing legato: I don't make any effort at all. I can sit here and pull as long as I want. And when you face the fact that you need to play legato... I mean, I do not make any efforts now.
- Yes, I see.
- I just put my fingers on it, and everything is sounding. And when you need to smash a finger on it, than another one to make your legato sound properly - and the outcome isn’t as expected - that means that the instrument doesn’t have time to response, because the effort for the plucking is much more than the effort for legato, and if the instrument has a detained attack, it does not have enough time or energy to engage quickly.
- Is there another general test for choosing an instrument?
- We haven't finished yet. In this case, I spoke only about the attack. When we play the bass, for example, there must be a certain feeling that the sound appears as if by clapping, so to say. You can’t hear it when playing higher tones, but when playing bass you can.
- Now you have a little turned away from the microphones. So. I can hear it, yes. It’s like an explosion, isn’t it?
- Yes, there is a feeling of such a clap, a shot. It shouldn’t occur that you pulled - and after a while your sound starts to swell up and gain power. It's not okay. But again, we probably are talking about people who already have something to do with guitar...
- Absolutely, yes. Well, I mean, if someone is attending a music college, he has to make a choice regarding his instrument.
- A college is already quite a serious level. The second story is also fundamentally important and also related to the sound generation, it’s the dynamics.

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karellen
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Re: Conseils pour les guitaristes

Message par karellen » lun. 09 septembre 2019, 11:09

C'est vraiment très intéressent, cela aurait été parfait si il avait pu faire le même exercice sur une guitare de mauvaise facture afin d’illustrer son propos et nous faire entendre la différence.

Merci beaucoup pour cette interview :okok:
Imagination is more important than knowledge

Brigitte Marquès
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Re: Conseils pour les guitaristes

Message par Brigitte Marquès » lun. 09 septembre 2019, 11:19

Merci pour le texte Dimitry et pour toutes tes interventions.
Élève du cours D02

Dmitry Nilov
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Re: Conseils pour les guitaristes

Message par Dmitry Nilov » lun. 09 septembre 2019, 15:18

A suivre... Le texte du 2-eme part:
Part 2
The dynamics
- The dynamic range, the loudness range. That's an essential point. The mistake that most musicians make when they lay their hands on a new instrument in order to test it somehow, they start playing it very loudly and see how loud it can sound. This is not a test at all, because the first loudness function in a strict sense is not part of the definition of a musical sound. That is, if we think about by what criteria we distinguish between musical and non-musical sound, we will see that there is no loudness in these criteria, not in any form. That means that a musical sound differs from a non-musical one not by loudness. Absolutely not. Next point. The human physiologically adapts to loudness. Let’s take a trite example: you have come to a disco. At the first moment, just as you came in - you get dazed by the bass sounds coming out of the loudspeakers, you can hear neither yourself nor anybody standing next to you. But in 10 minutes – there you go - you're used to it, you don't think it's loud anymore, you're already able to talk to someone, your ears adapt. What is the mechanism of this? We are in some environment; there is a certain - in decibels measurable - general level of noise, the loudness of the environment. Our ear assumes this average level as a reference point, so everything down from this point is regarded as quiet, and everything up from it is regarded as loud. This is the dynamic range. So, first of all, any instrument and guitar in particular as an instrument has an upper limit of loudness anyway (not infinitely, no). Secondly, the musician certainly has a limit of his physical resource, because when you play something fast there, for example, you don't have an opportunity to stress every note expressly. But this dynamic range width is determined by how well the instrument can sound quietly. When you play very quietly...
- By the way, the most impact on the public is produced by the extreme piano, pianissimo.
- ...as far as you can. Here I‘am playing.
- If the instrument doesn't allow you to do it, it's a significant disadvantage, of course. And, most importantly, it does sound in this dynamics, it doesn’t ….
- I'm playing now, without any effort, just by slightly touching it with my fingers.
- That is, how much effort you put into the instrument, so does it sound.
- Correct. First of all, as you just rightly said, it should sound when playing quietly. Here I’m playing quietly, but you can hear every note clearly.
- Absolutely distînctly, yes.
- Everything can be heard, the sound has a clear beginning, which is also a sign of the attack. When playing quietly - without making an effort, pulling the strings and creating so an illusion of the attack - but just smoothly pulling the string, your sound is coming out. I’m barely playing deliberately right now.
- The instrument should sound adequate to the efforts made.
- And this is the second question, I just didn't get to it. And then, moving towards a stronger loudness, you increase the effort. And now I’m increasing it slowly. And this gradation should be accurate. That is, it’s wrong that if you have been playing quietly, then slightly increase the effort - and the instrument suddenly sounds loud.

- Overall, it's like a good car.
- Well, the change of the loudness should be adequate to the change of the plucking force. And the wider is this gradation line, i.e. the finer tuning you can do, the better is the instrument dynamics. And this width of this range is to a great extent determined by pianissimo, i.e. how well the instrument sounds when played pianissimo.

- So, in general we got a sense of the attack and dynamics.
- Of the attack and dynamics we got a sense. Now... There is this wonderful notion called "evenness ".

A bientot. :bye:

Dmitry Nilov
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Re: Conseils pour les guitaristes

Message par Dmitry Nilov » dim. 22 septembre 2019, 11:00

Chers amis. Je présente à votre attention la suite de notre conversation avec le luthier Timophey Tkach sur la différence entre la construction classique de la guitare et la construction moderne (lattis).


Pour une meilleure compréhension le texte anglais ci-dessous:
About forecasting and designs
- What question do you think we should choose? Look, there is a question like this: "Is it possible to foresee (forecast) the level of an instrument before you put strings on it? It means to understand in advance what it will be like and how it happens. And there is a question: "In your opinion, what are the principal differences between the design of classical guitar and the design with a lattice, and what are the advantages of both designs?“ Which of them should we better answer, because they're actually quite difficult questions, I think.
- Not really...
- No, aren’t they? Well, let's talk about forecasting.
- The answer is short: the forecasting is possible. Moreover, it is necessary. Moreover, just the ability to foresee the result (namely, by means of purposive actions to pursue this result and get it as you have planned it) - that is what professionalism in this work is. That is, if you just know how to assemble the body – well, any cabinetmaker is able to make it, there is no problem here. It's a difficult work, but not deadly difficult one. But, in the sense of sound, if every time you assemble it you are simply waiting for what comes out, it just turns out like working in the dark, it is something like a bear riding a bicycle in the circus. He doesn't know what a bicycle is, he doesn't understand why he's riding, he doesn't understand the meaning of this action, how spinning pedals is connected with the turning of the wheels, he doesn't understand anything - he is just performing some mechanical action. So - to answer it very briefly, because a long answering doesn’t make sense - the body of the instrument, or rather the instrument, like a string, for instance, has its own set of resonances, i.e. its own set of notes. That is, it has its basic tone and it has a set of harmonics. And you can hear it all.
- And at what stage can you forecast the instrument?
- Before you started making it.
- In your opinion, what are the fundamental differences between the classical guitar design and the guitars where a lattice is used, and what are the advantages of both designs?
- The point of designs with different types of lattices - from such a primitive physical viewpoint, i.e. if you take a certain abstract plate and set yourself the task of achieving a uniform distribution of elasticity on this plate, then the lattice is a very great thing: it covers the entire plate evenly, over equal distances, it becomes thinner towards the edges and you get a plate that - on its basic tone (attention!), i.e. on the large form of vibrations - works as a whole like a diffuser, it works extremely effectively. It also works exceptionally effectively on the small forms of vibrations which appear in these very cells. And what do we have? We have a low spectrum expressed with a high intensity and a very high spectrum expressed with a high intensity, but in the very middle spectrum of harmonics, which I already mentioned, up to the tenth or twelfth - here we just have a lapse. And such a sound will have only one advantage: this design allows us to achieve some abstract loudness, simply measured in decibels. But the sound itself regarding its timbre will be poor, sharp and won’t have great mobility. That is, no melodiousness there - it will be perceived as a cold sharp sound. And so, actually, it is. Such instruments can be loud by relatively little effort. If you simply would measure in decibels, such an instrument can be very loud and create an illusion of brightness due to these high frequencies, but, in fact, this depth or what is called a warm timbre, it is not there. And here, by the way, it is necessary to understand, that beginning to invent any strange designs, we absolutely forget, what guitar has won the entire world. To what does the guitar owe its popularity all over the world? And, in fact, there aren't many of such instruments - the violin can also be mentioned here - which in different cultures have taken root as folk instruments. That’s all of Europe, all of Latin America, they adore this instrument in Asia: Japan, Korea, China. So it’s this warm, lively, mobile sound that attracts people. It is not the only plucked instrument in the world; after all, people have their own folk instruments in different cultures. Nevertheless, the guitar has conquered the world. And, actually, the classical design is just focused on showing this middle spectrum of consonant harmonics in the maximum degree. As a rule, they have a better situation with the dynamic range - not with loudness, but with the very dynamic range - the space between piano and forte. And the sound is warmer and livelier when talking about timbre. It has arisen from a chase of loudness, but, mainly, it has arisen from a complex of guitarists, that the guitar should sound like a grand piano. Somewhere someone has born it in the head, and began to invent something to make it sound like a grand piano. So you have to tell yourself once and for all that the guitar will never sound like a grand piano.
- There is no need to.
- …...and its advantages lie in a completely different area, absolutely. And the values of the piano... By the way, the piano, unlike the guitar, has a very low efficiency factor. There are a huge number of strings there, he weighs Goodness knows how much, there is a cast-iron frame and on each note there are 3 strings. And also a very complicated mechanism of sound extraction. And with that in mind you have no possibility to work with the timbre on a grand piano. It's only possible by varying the attack. There's no other way to work with the timbre on a grand piano. The grand piano wins over through its mass, so to say. And the guitar is a unique instrument, because both hands are directly contacting the string and participate in sound processing. Such possibilities of working with the timbre as the guitar them has, still have to be searched, if at all possible to find. Than even the violin has a go-between – it’s the bow, and the guitar has both hands directly contacting with the string and that is its advantage and that explains its popularity. So it doesn’t make any sense to strive for a piano, you have to make a guitar, trying to use the resource of this design as much as possible, not try to make a piano without legs.
- Yes. By the way, I see a grand piano in the background - what piano is it?
- A Steinway.
- Made when?
- A Steinway of the year 1940. A very good baby grand.
- Okay, I think, it’s enough...

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Gérard-François Gros
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Re: Conseils pour les guitaristes

Message par Gérard-François Gros » dim. 22 septembre 2019, 13:26

Merci Dmitry , même avec le traducteur j'arrive à comprendre des choses intéressantes .

Brigitte Marquès
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Re: Conseils pour les guitaristes

Message par Brigitte Marquès » dim. 22 septembre 2019, 15:22

Merci Dimitry :merci:
Élève du cours D02

M'Bo
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Re: Conseils pour les guitaristes

Message par M'Bo » lun. 23 septembre 2019, 22:51

Merci Dmitry!

Vraiment intéressants ces vidéos et aussi merci de mettre la traduction anglaise qui simplifie la compréhension :okok:

:bye:

Dmitry Nilov
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Re: Conseils pour les guitaristes

Message par Dmitry Nilov » jeu. 03 octobre 2019, 12:14

Chers amis,
Je vous remercie de votre intérêt. :merci:
Aujourd'hui je voudrais vous présenter un nouvel article du journal qui a interviewé cette fois-ci pas moi, mais mon administrateur de concert personnel Serguey Bykovsky, qui travaille avec moi dès le début de ma carrière. C’est la personne qui m’a accompagné partout et qui a voyagé avec moi à travers toute la Russie : de Kaliningrad jusqu'à Vladivostok, de Murmansk jusqu'à Makhachkala… Il partage ses réflexions sur la situation autour de la guitare classique. Je suis reconnaissant à la rédaction du journal "Da capo al fine" pour leur courage de publier cet article. Desolée, en anglais...pas de moyen de faire la traduction. :desole:
DMITRY NILOV. GUITARE CLASSIQUE. UN COUP D'ŒIL DERRIÈRE LES COULISSES...
https://muzkult.ru/news/47405274
Salutations et à bientôt. :bye:

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